is giant eagle owned by kroger23 Apr is giant eagle owned by kroger
In 1928, the families sold Eagle Grocery to the Kroger Company. Customers would ask for them, then clerks would deliver them to customers. Kroger withdrew from the Minneapolis-St. Paul area in 1970, selling 16 stores. During this decade, the company also bought up the former Kruger warehouse located in Lawrenceville, one of the first of many offers made to offer commercial outlets. [78], In November 2019, Kroger unveiled an updated logo for their stores and company, with the '"Fresh For Everyone" tagline and the "Krojis". The same month, USA Today listed Krogerand its brandsas the top supermarket (based on Google searches, Yelp data and 24/7 Tempo's research) in Alaska, Indiana, Kentucky, Mississippi, Ohio, Oregon, Tennessee, Virginia, Washington, and West Virginia. "[83] Seattle and Washington passed similar ordinances. She is just awful, really. An estimated 2,000 managerial positions will be filled by the new hires. Charlotte Observer, Kroger will Close Charlotte, Charleston Stores in January. That's what the Kuhn's in Banksville Plaza was before it became Kuhn's. (Prior to this time Kroger had no stores west of Kansas. [71] Kroger Express[72] will offer meal kits and other meal solutions. "[186][187] Criteria included the number of threatened fish species supermarkets sold, their seafood purchasing policies, and ocean legislation policies they supported. In northeastern Ohio, Kroger had a plant in Solon, Ohio until the mid-1980s. The first Kroger Marketplace in Virginia opened on Midlothian Turnpike in Richmond, Virginia, on the site of the former Cloverleaf Mall on December 6, 2012. The brands listed below may be found in various Kroger-owned stores. Did you notice how many results popped up in your search? The stores were reverted to the Boys Markets branding, after acquiring the chain. Formerly a conventional Kroger store, the square footage (square meterage) increased from 68,000 to 133,000 square feet (6,300 to 12,400 square meters). The Kroger Company, or simply Kroger, is an American retail company that operates (either directly or through its subsidiaries[5]) supermarkets and multi-department stores throughout the United States. The company cited the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act as a prime reason for the move. Originally there were two stores, now there are 13 of them, with the fourteenth store under construction in a Cleveland suburb of Westlake, in Ohio. Community curated front page of Pittsburgh's place on the internet. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Supermarkets within the Roundy's chain carry a variety of banner names; none carry the banner name "Roundy's". Products marked Private Selection are offered to compare with gourmet brands or regional brands that may be considered more upscale than the standard Kroger brand products. Also on the receiving end of alleged workplace sabotage, one of Seyfried's co-workers called the company's ethics helpline and reported she and Seyfried were being bullied. [7], The Kroger Company is the United States' largest supermarket operator by revenue[8] and fifth-largest general retailer. Kroger cuts health care for Indiana workers' spouses", "Most Employers won't Drop Health Care Coverage Because of Obamacare: Survey", "Supermarket giant Kroger eyeing Hawaii for first Isle location", "Kroger Acquires Hiller's in Metro Detroit", "Harris Teeter's equipment, fixtures up for auction", "Local Harris Teeter stores to stay open once Kroger deal complete", "Harris Teeter closing Nashville stores, converting 3 to Kroger stores", "Harris Teeter closing 4 stores in Nashville; 3 being sold to Kroger", "Kroger to buy Pick 'n Save parent Roundy's in $800 million deal", "Kroger & Lucky's Market Announce Strategic Partnership", "After 44 years, Commonwealth Stadium has a new name: Kroger Field", "Kroger to Unveil New Convenience Concept", "Kroger to sell its convenience stores to UK's EG Group for $2.15 billion", "Kroger and EG Group Announce Definitive Agreement for Purchase of Kroger's Convenience Store Business", "EG Group Goes West With Fuel Retail Convenience Model EG Group", "Kroger Hiring 11K For Supermarket Divisions", "Kroger to hire 11,000 employees to its supermarkets", "Kroger Inks Deal with Ocado to Enhance Ecommerce", "Kroger is Building an Enduring Advantage", "Kroger debuts first Ocado automated fulfillment center", "1,500 expected to lose jobs as Kroger closes all stores in Raleigh, Durham", "Kroger Backs off "Net 90" Payment Plan to Produce Shippers", "Kroger moves into wine delivery in 14 states", "Kroger to Sell Groceries in Walgreens Stores", "Walgreens, Kroger expand partnership, testing Express grocery shops", "Mike Copeland: Self checkout at H-E-B; Gas prices up; New medical facility on horizon", "Nuro expands Kroger driverless deliveries to Houston", "Kroger is now charging a fee for cash back at checkout", "Kroger to make customers pay for cash-back debit card payments", "If you want cash back at Dillons grocery stores in Wichita, you'll have to pay a fee", "The largest US supermarket is waiving grocery-pickup fees and getting a radical new look", "Kroger Wine Expands Ship-to-Home Delivery Options", "The Best Grocery Store Chain in Every State", "An unexpected pitfall for some cities' mandatory hazard pay for essential workers", "The Kroger Co. (NYSE:KR) Looks Like A Good Stock, And It's Going Ex-Dividend Soon", https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/warren-buffetts-berkshire-hathaway-likes-kroger-stock-and-you-should-too-2021-06-29, "Fred Meyer, QFC parent Kroger says pharmacy customer data impacted in vendor hack", "Kroger Elects Elaine Chao to Board of Directors", "Why Customers Are Furious With Kroger And Boycotting Its Stores: 'This Is The Last Straw', "At least 1 dead, 14 others injured after shooting at Memphis-area Kroger", "Authorities ID Kroger mass shooting suspect as 29-year-old third-party vendor for grocery store", "Collierville Kroger to reopen after mass shooting", "Kroger rolls out the 'Fresh Cart' as part of logo", "It's Official: Kroger Delivery Is Coming to South Florida", "Kroger bringing new high-tech warehouse, 700 jobs to Cabarrus County", "Kroger to supply restaurants with next-day delivery service", "Kroger agrees to buy rival grocery company Albertsons for $24.6 billion", "Two of the largest supermarkets in America are merging", "Kroger Financial Statements 2005-2020 | KR", "Kroger's Sustainability Report for 2020Q4", "Kroger's Sustainability Report for 2019Q4", "Kroger completes divestiture of SupeRx/Hook stand-alone drugstore business with sale of remaining 48 SupeRx stores to the chain's former president, Wolken", "Kroger Completes Sale of Convenience Store Business to EG Group", "Kroger to close Main & Vine store after only 23 months", "Owen's making transition over to Kroger", "Grocery Store Locations - Dillons Food Stores", "Grocery Store Locations - Fry's Food Stores", "Grocery Store Locations - Gerbes Super Markets", "Grocery Store Locations - Harris Teeter", "Grocery Store Locations - Jay C Food Stores", "Grocery Store Locations - Pay Less Super Markets", "Locations - Find A Store Near You - Ruler Foods Grocery Store", "Grocery Store Locations - Smith's Food and Drug", "Kroger hopes Graceland store is Wal-Mart antidote", "Biggest Kroger Marketplace to open in Centerville", "Beavercreek Approves New Kroger Marketplace Store", Biggest Kroger store ever opens Thursday in Oakley, "Kroger Marketplace to Open First and Largest Store in Texas", "Work to begin on Kroger Marketplace Fort Bend Herald: News", "Kroger in Frisco to sell not only food, but the dining table, too | wfaa.com Dallas Fort Worth", "First Kroger Marketplace in Montgomery County opens in Willis", "Mayor Hogue Delivers State of the City Address", "Kroger opens Marketplace to large crowds Richmond Times-Dispatch: Companies", "Kroger store on tap at former Va. Beach Kmart site | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com", "Kroger Marketplace coming to NewPorte Landing", "Kroger's largest Michigan store opens in Southgate", "Standard Vendor Agreement for Merchandise (Products)", "An unmanned car may soon deliver your Kroger groceries", "Kroger to test grocery delivery using driverless vehicles", "Sparkly unicorn ice cream: Kroger's bid to win grocery wars", "The Simple Truth: Private Selection, other Kroger brands drive sales", "Kroger partners with Alibaba in China grocery sales venture", "Kroger's Simple Truth Brand Reaches $2 Billion in Annual Sales", "Grocery giant Kroger tries on a new outfit with apparel line", "Mastercard Selected for Kroger Co-Brand Credit Card Issued by U.S. Bank", "Large grocery chain widens ban on Visa credit cards", "Sprint, i-wireless Merger To Heat Up Lifeline Services", "Tennessee Kroger grocery store shooting leaves 1 dead, at least 12 injured, police say", "84.51 Builds a Machine Learning Machine for Kroger", "A global map of the relative impact of fishing on the biomass of marine ecosystems from 1950 to 2004", "Protecting our oceans, one supermarket at a time", "Kroger Under Fire From Gun-Control Moms", "Kroger Executive Stands Firm Against Group's Demand to Ban Guns from Store", https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/02/02/963496920/kroger-to-close-2-long-beach-stores-following-city-mandated-pandemic-pay-increas, "National Kroger protest held for employee who died by suicide", "Former Kroger grocery store employee's suicide was a result of 'torturous conditions,' lawsuit says", "Kroger workers experienced hunger, homelessness, and couldn't pay their rent in 2021. Only a few independent stores like Aldi and those stores operated by Supervalu, such as FoodLand, Save-A-Lot, Shop N Save, and County market have a presence in the area of Pittsburgh, though they dont have much market share. With your Giant Eagle Advantage Card, you are eligible for GetGo AdvantagePAY, which stacks your fuelperks+ for additional savings at the pump. Giant Eagle is an American supermarket chain with stores in Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, Indiana, and Maryland. acquired 20 former Michigan Farmer Jack locations from A&P when A&P exited the Michigan Market. While anyone living in Maryland, West Virginia, or Ohio among some parts of America will know the brand and have shopped there, what about the rest of the country? [36] Walmart Supercenters are also major competitors in both markets, and the chain briefly competed against Winn-Dixie, which has now exited Virginia. In the light of increased self-checkout usage via kiosk or smartphone app in 2019, Kroger is gradually shifting towards creating more self-checkout smartphone apps and lanes than cashier lanes. [38] Murray's Cheese counters within Kroger stores sell a variety of artisanal cheese from all parts of the world. Hi I work at Giant Eagle corporate. Ahold Delhaize. Our Brands. [84] Kroger's quarterly revenues as reported by November 20, 2020, were US$29.72 billion, and the corporation's per-share earnings and dividends grew at a rapid rate in 2020. [17], In 1916, Kroger company began self-service shopping. This article is about the company. WebGiant Eagle Supermarkets, Inc. has reached a tentative agreement on a labor contract with the union representing workers at 34 supermarkets in western Pennsylvania and two in [citation needed]. [195] The company told employees that it will no longer provide two weeks of paid emergency leave for unvaccinated employees who contract COVID-19, unless local jurisdictions require otherwise. These are featured especially in Fred Meyer stores, where more than half the goods sold are non-food, or in the smaller Fred Meyer-based Marketplace stores. UPDATE it was nothing but a rumor spread by a fellow co-worker. The first Kroger Marketplace in Mississippi opened on September 16, 2016, in Hernando (a suburb of Memphis, Tennessee) to much fanfare. The 1950s also saw the introduction of its own trading stamp program, which only led to more growth for the company. I know the Bloomfield Shursave used to be a Kroger as well. At the same time, Giant Eagle mechanized its order filling and loading processes. The slogan was Make every day taste better, and was used to focus on the quality of the products which was a change from the previous slogan where the convenience was focused on. However, Walmart managed to build it behind the property in 2014, thanks to discovering a loophole around the lease at Northern Lights. Not all of them operate under the Kroger name. On December 4, 2018, Kroger announced a deal to sell food inside drugstore Walgreens. In 1928, the families sold Eagle As of Q2 2022, Kroger operated 1,629 supermarket fuel centers.[1][6]. The first Kroger Marketplace in Indiana opened on September 29, 2011, on Dupont Road on Fort Wayne's northwest side. The first Kroger Marketplace store in Texas opened on October 9, 2009, in the Waterside Marketplace in Richmond, Texas. No idea what it's about but someone from our PC office says it's supposed to be about "competitive prices" which we all call bullshit. Two other families the Moravitz and Weizenbaum families had been in the process of building their own grocery company named OK Grocery. In 1931, the three original families joined with the new ones, and they formed the Giant Eagle chain with the first store opening in 1936, on Brownsville Road. One private brand emphasizes no-frills products at the lowest possible price, another is intended to be comparable to leading national brands but a better value and the third is a premium (often organic) brand. I have not heard any senior leaders talk about it. 1. [156] Other Kroger Marketplace stores in Texas are in Little Elm, Texas; Fort Worth's Alliance Town Center; Mansfield;[155] Wylie, Texas;[157] and Baytown, Texas. Or late at night when they have no one working a register nor anyone available to help the self check outs. In October 2016, it was announced that a Kroger Marketplace will open in La Porte, Indiana within the NewPorte Landing development. Now the supermarket brand occupies many former Kroger sites. Nov 17, 1988. Bank. By 1902, the Kroger Grocery and Baking Company had been incorporated. Kroger will retain just over 20 convenience stores. By 2005, it was the 32nd largest privately owned corporation, which was determined and noted by Forbes. [3] In 2017, MasterCard became the network for Kroger's newly branded 1-2-3 REWARDS credit card issued by U.S. Despite high store volumes and high population densities, the Old Louisville (lease expiration) and Southland Terrace stores closed. What would you like to follow? MoneyGram International Inc. MGI recently announced its collaboration with the Kroger Family of Stores, which would allow customers to have a convenient access to MoneyGram bill pay at more than 1,900 Money Services counters across Kroger, Fry's, King Soopers, Smith's and Fred Meyer locations. Giant Eagle has 417 stores throughout western Pennsylvania, Ohio, northern West Virginia, and Maryland with revenue of $9.3 billion. 11. Kroger Marketplace is a chain of big-box stores. Also, I was just informed supposedly giant eagle WILL have a public press conference sometime this coming Monday. [citation needed], Beginning in 1955, Kroger began acquiring supermarket chains, expanding into new markets. In the 1960s-1970s period, the supermarket company responded to its customers wishes and discontinued its stamp program and replaced them with much lower prices in a move which not only surprised the grocery industry but also made the Wall Street Journal print an article about it. [53], As of 14February2017[update], Kroger is no longer offering a discount to senior citizens 59 and up. The first Kroger Marketplace store in Tennessee opened in Farragut, Tennessee (a small suburb near Knoxville) at the end of 2008, and a second store in Thompson's Station, Tennessee, about 20 miles (32km) south of Nashville, opened in early 2009. Food 4 Less encompasses two divisions: Food 4 Less West (all locations in California; includes Foods Co.) and Food 4 Less Midwest. The second effect of the economic recession was to worsen labor-management relations, causing a protracted labor strike in 1983 and 1984. [67], In July 2018, Kroger officials backed off a Net 90 payment plan to the produce industry. Is Giant Eagle Owned By Kroger? [192], In July 2021, a wrongful-death lawsuit was filed against Kroger by the family of worker Evan Seyfried. Kroger built an ultra-modern dairy plant (Crossroad Farms Dairy) in Indianapolis in 1972, which was then considered the largest dairy plant in the world. For the uninformed, what are you referring to? [51] (Within a year-and-a-half, however, Kroger had rebranded all Copps locations to the Pick 'n Save banner. While they operate more than four-hundred individual stores, each one varying in size from 120,000 square-foot supermarkets to much smaller convenience markets that sell fuel and food themselves. (Kroger purchased Eagle Grocery company, whose founders went on to create Giant Eagle.) It also operates a cafe which serves prepared sandwiches, with a salad bar, with an internet connection which is wireless. [3] In June 2018, Kroger announced testing driverless cars for delivering groceries. WebIs Kroger and Giant the same? With the Gahanna opening, the number of Kroger Marketplace stores is six, four in the Columbus area and two in the Cincinnati area. [30] The Hamady acquisition was short-lived.[31]. Kroger also swapped all ten of its Greensboro, North Carolina-area stores in 1999 to Matthews, North Carolina-based Harris Teeter, for 11 of that company's stores in central and western Virginia. During the strike, Kroger withdrew all of its stores from the Western Pennsylvania market, including some recently opened "superstores" and "greenhouses", selling these stores to Wetterau (now part of SuperValu), who promptly flipped the stores to independent owners while continuing to supply them under the FoodLand and Shop 'n Save brands. Who is the owner of Giant Eagle? The first Kroger Marketplace in Michigan opened on June 14, 2013, at Sterns and Secor Roads in Lambertville (a small-sized suburb north of Toledo, Ohio). Kroger is also going to convert some Turkey Hill stores into the concept store. In 1998, Kroger merged with the then fifth-largest grocery company Fred Meyer, along with its subsidiaries, Ralphs, QFC, and Smith's.[34]. Kroger opened and had about 50 stores in St. Louis until it left the market in 1986, saying that its stores were unprofitable. What comes after a convenience store and is a step below a supermarket? [79] The company also announced an expansion of its online wine delivery program into Arizona. The benefit cut affects roughly 11,000 workers in Indiana. Is giant owned by Kroger? [169] Simple Truth reached $2 billion in annual sales in 2018. [citation needed], In 2004, Kroger bought most of the old Thriftway stores in Cincinnati, Ohio, when Winn-Dixie left the area. The ordinance affected "companies with more than 300 workers nationwide and more than 15 employees per store. This was $7.49 (about 7%) cheaper than Giant Eagle total of $105.57. Boys Markets was acquired by the Yucaipa Companies in 1989. On June 15, 1993, the company announced the closure of its 15 area stores. Wegmans, Harris teeter, publix. [179] Customers can choose from "Unlimited" rate plans including unlimited talk/text and with data allotments up to and including unlimited data. Report as inappropriate 6/25/2013 Mike G. Columbus, OH 129 friends 545 reviews Elite 22 Is Giant Eagle owned by Kroger? In the late 1990s, it acquired many stores from A&P as it exited many markets in the South. Owned by Kroger, Pay Less Super Markets in Indiana offer 1 fuel point for every $1 spent, and 100 points will get you 10 cents off per gallon. Giant Eagle is one of those success stories which has exploded in the 20th century, and it looks as if they are going to go on to do even better in the 21st century as they dream up and develop even more innovations for their company. For Kroger, this move into foodservice distribution represents an expansion beyond its core retail grocery operations. When you check-out you are submitting information to both Blackhawk Network and Giant Eagle. According to Peter Dreier, who participated in the project: "There are workers sleeping in RVs or couch surfing or living in parks somewhere. [20] In late July, it purchased Child's Food Stores, Inc. of Jacksonville, Texas. In summary it may be true, but never heard Kroger brought up from any water cooler talk at corporate. [1][6] Kroger operates 33 manufacturing plants, 1,629 supermarket fuel centers, 2,252 pharmacies, 225 The Little Clinic in-store medical clinics, and 129 jewelry stores (782 convenience stores were sold to EG Group in 2018). Walmarts construction of super centers has led to market share loss in recent years. There are currently a total of 188 marketplaces.[1]. In 1883, 23-year-old Bernard Kroger, the fifth of ten children of German immigrants, invested his life savings of $372 (equivalent to $10,819 in 2021) to open a grocery store at 66 Pearl Street in downtown Cincinnati. [44], On March 3, 2015, Kroger announced it will enter Hawaii, having registered with the state as a new business in February 2015. Laura Shapira Kenet is the CEO and the President of Giant Eagle, Inc with the executive chairman being David Shapira. Most of its stores were bought by National, Schnucks, and Shop 'n Save. The products are produced and sold in quality tiers, and account for over 30% of the retailer's unit sales.[166][167]. Giant [61], On April 10, 2018, Kroger announced plans to hire an estimated 11,000 new employees. In 1985, Kroger outbid Rite Aid for the Hook's Drug Stores chain, based in Indianapolis, Indiana, and combined it with SupeRx to become Hook's-SupeRx. Despite the problems faced by the business in the 30s and the 40s with the Great Depression and the Second World War, the chain began to grow steadily. The pharmacy side of the format offers immunizations for influenza, pneumonia, and zostavax. The company launched its online delivery services in Central Florida earlier in 2021. Some have been replaced by the current Giant Eagle prototype released in the early 2000s. You would think that there would be only one, Read More Websites Have Apple Store Locator Pages Just to Rank in Search EnginesContinue, For people who are thinking about something with which to occupy their time, there is the option of catching an Arizona Coyotes game at the Gila River Arena. ), In April 2016, Kroger announced that it had made a "meaningful investment" in the Boulder, Colorado-based Lucky's Market, an organic foods supermarket chain that operated 17 stores in 13 states throughout the Midwest and Southeast United States.[52]. [189], In 2014, Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, a national gun control organization backed by former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, began a campaign to pressure the Kroger chain to ban the open carry of firearms in all of its stores. While it quickly established its opening hours in its stores on Sundays, providing a seven-day weekly opening service, with the stores remaining open for twenty-four hours for the first time. [13], About two-thirds of Kroger's employees are represented by collective bargaining agreements,[14] with most being represented by the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW).[15]. Kroger reported Total CO2e emissions (Direct + Indirect) for the twelve months ending 31 December 2020 at 5,090 Kt (659 /11.5% y-o-y). Construction of the new 123,000-square-foot (11,400-square-meter) store is expected to begin early in 2018.[160]. [1][6] As of November6, 2021[update], Kroger's headquarters are located in downtown Cincinnati. Kroger also experienced a similar withdrawal from Chattanooga, Tennessee, in 1989. Learn how your comment data is processed. These stores have a Starbucks, and a Kroger Pharmacy. $105.57. Press J to jump to the feed. [86][87], In 2021, the company was reported to have been breached by a third-party hack which compromised the pharmacy records of Kroger owned Fred Meyer and QFC stores' customers. It started as its own brand and, today, is headquartered in Denver, Colorado. Kroger Personal Finance was introduced in 2007 to offer branded Visa cards, mortgages, home equity loans, pet, renter's and home insurance, identity theft protection, and wireless services. Its dividend increase was about 14% annually. They also feature pharmacies which have been included in their business format since the 1980s. This slogan was changed in 2001 and wasnt changed again until 2009. The store is scheduled to be opened in 2019. Similar to rival chains Meijer, Sears, Kmart, Target, Walmart, and Albertsons, and modeled after Kroger-owned Fred Meyer, these stores contain multiple departments. Food distribution and buying takes place under various subsidiaries and divisions. Acquired June 1955, name phased out in 1966. [91][92] In the aftermath of the shooting, Kroger offered counseling services for its employees and closed down the store until November 10. The History and Evolution of the Tampa Bay Rays Logo, 10 Things You Didnt Know About Abraham Shafi, Websites Have Apple Store Locator Pages Just to Rank in Search Engines. Giant Eagle rebranded some of its stores, renaming them Market District. It operates stores in Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Indiana and Maryland. Employees sell customer loyalty programs. Giant Eagle, which was founded in 1931, has more than 400 retail locations and 32,000 workers, according to its website. After World War I, three Pittsburgh-area familiesthe Goldsteins, Porters, and In 2008, Kroger began a partnership with Murray's Cheese of New York City. The company has received criticism for buying up other convenience outlets GetGo is a prime example or simply buying up real estate space to prevent competitors from building nearby. In December 2021, Kroger Co. announced elimination of some COVID-19 benefits for unvaccinated employees. Kroger still maintains a presence in the nearby Morgantown, West Virginia, Wheeling, West Virginia, and Weirton, West Virginia/Steubenville, Ohio, areas where Giant Eagle has a much smaller presence and the SuperValu-supplied stores are virtually nonexistent, though in all of these cases, Walmart remains a major competitor and Aldi is the only other supermarket with any market overlap. Kroger's supermarket fuel centers are not included in the sale. Instead, there is a region called Tampa Bay, which encompasses a number of cities such as Tampa and St. Petersburg that can be found on the shores, Read More The History and Evolution of the Tampa Bay Rays LogoContinue, Abraham Shafi is the CEO and founder of IRL, which is short for In Real Life. Shafi is also a business owner and an active part of the crypto space. Giant Eagle was first founded in 1918, by three families Goldstein, Porter, and Chait. He copy and and pasted a kroger pallet onto a union contract page for our company and said it was found outside of are office. Kroger announced in late 2018 that it was acquiring Giant Eagle, a grocery chain with nearly 2,000 stores in 26 states. Wonder what will happen with the "gentlemen's agreement" with best beloved Wegman's? However, most stores were in less desirable neighborhoods and did not fit in with Kroger's upscale image. While it's true there was mass layoffs within last few weeks, rumors like this have been flying for awhile.
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